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You should think about the difference between majority and majority rule. I'll try another way.

Posted by: RogerMore on Feb 07, 12:21 in response to Bleachigo's post Your argument is full of good intentions, but clearly...

Providing equality of opportunity doesn't stifle a majority, it just means the majority can't do whatever they want.

If a hypothetical minority has 15% of the actors and 5% of the acting opportunities, then they're under-represented. If you have a system that provides that minority with 15% of the opportunities, there is equality of opportunity, but the 15% is still a minority.

If you have a system that provides 60% of the actors with 90% of the acting opportunities, then that group is over-represented. A system that provides that 60% with 60% of the opportunities means they're still a majority. They still get 60% of the opportunities. They just can't use the power of their majority to take 90% of the opportunities. They're not stifled (except to people who think the 60% should get 90% of the opportunities)

With that 60% group - if they have 90% of the opportunities, you'd expect them to get 90% of the nominations. And they get 90% of the nominations because they had better opportunities under a majority rule system. Should those nominees should have an asterisk against their name because they benefit from a system that overly rewards the majority?

If you change the system so that the 60% get 60% of the opportunities and that leads to 60% of nominations being from that group, the drop from 90% of nominations to 60% doesn't exclude because of their race. The people who are not nominated are excluded because in a system that provides equal opportunity and is more competitive as a result, their performances are simply not good enough. They're excluded based on quality, not because of their race. (However, the performers from that 60% who do get nominated no longer have that asterisk.)

Because of where it inevitably leads, there are many systems designed to prevent majority rule and ensure that there is some degree of equality and that minority views are factored in.  That's why, for example, there's a Senate with two senators for every state - so that the House of Reps can't simply pass laws that favour the majority (big states dominating the small). It's also why the Constitution is basically written in stone and can only be amended by a super-majority in Congress and ratification by 3/4 of the states.

I don't see why Hollywood and the Oscars should be that different.

via SC: Listen to the New Batman Theme from SUPE2 by Junkie XL Antibody Feb 05, 10:27

no {nm} slipping jimmy Feb 05, 10:35

Deadpool score by Junkie XL. (reminds me, he was robbed of an Oscar nom for MMAX4) Antibody Feb 05, 10:39

It's probably because he is a minority, and the academy is "whitewashing" again {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 11:29

(Dutch and white) {nm} slipping jimmy Feb 05, 11:30

Different but same-same.... {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 11:33

show us on the doll where the black person touched you {nm} slipping jimmy Feb 05, 11:45

Are you "profiling" or are you saying only black people can be pedophiles {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 12:01

He's saying why do you get defensive and feel threatened when marginalized minorities dare to speak up. {nm} Antibody Feb 05, 12:11

Funny how you interpret pointing out the hypocrisy in his statements for being “defensive” Bleachigo Feb 05, 14:25

It's not hypocrisy. How has a minority hurt you? Pretending we're all equal doesn't wipe out the fact there is a lack of equality right Antibody Feb 05, 14:35

I'am not pretending, we are equal...I believe it and I am saying it...WE ARE ALL EQUAL (why dont you agree?) Bleachigo Feb 05, 15:14

Racism is over, folks because Bleachigo says we're all equal. {nm} Antibody Feb 05, 15:17

False Alarm: Some people dont want to let go of the past just yet {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 15:21

No, because it's too loud for the old white voters. :o {nm} Antibody Feb 05, 11:31

Well I guess that counts out Beethoven and Tchaikovsky then. {nm} hyperzeitgeist Feb 05, 11:56

Pre-existing works are ineligible. :p {nm} Antibody Feb 05, 12:06

Oh wait... Bleachigo Feb 05, 11:31

But I thought all whites were American Males??? {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 11:59

Perhaps if you did some ACTUAL thinking and reflection instead of misrepresenting it into what you think this is all about? {nm} BSmurf Feb 05, 12:21

^^^ and that's not a joke or slam. Have you really spent any time thinking about WHY all the recent hubbub is taking place, form someone's BSmurf Feb 05, 12:22

You can pretend it is a complex problem, but my own belief is simple..."Equality for ALL"..why dont u agree? Bleachigo Feb 05, 14:31

everyone is equal at law. that doesn't mean everyone is treated equally in society {nm} slipping jimmy Feb 05, 14:39

read Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron to see where this line of thought leads MrZero Feb 05, 15:00

so nobody should have equal rights under the law? got it {nm} slipping jimmy Feb 05, 15:08

He didnt read it...that sort of thinking is dangerous for the HG {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 15:33

If there's anything this story proves, it's that BSmurf is spot on. RogerMore Feb 05, 18:20

nice {nm} Moviesnob Feb 05, 18:58

Don't you want the artist to be judged by the performance not handicapped or elivated by a curve? {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 19:43

Relatively few opportunities for minorities means they are effectively handicapped. Cookie-cutter Oscar bait movies are graded on a curve RogerMore Feb 05, 19:56

You make it sound like the answer is population control based on race. So if we just had an equal amount Bleachigo Feb 05, 20:09

Before you go ape, allow me to rephrase *"your logic and mind differ" Bleachigo Feb 05, 20:15

If your interpretation of what I wrote is "the answer is population control based on race", then I question that you have a logical mind. {nm} RogerMore Feb 05, 20:24

Only logical conclusion from your statement Bleachigo Feb 05, 20:46

"relatively few opportunities" means that the solution is "create more opportunities", not eliminate minorities. {nm} RogerMore Feb 05, 21:45

Your argument is in quicksand...so we just need to create more opportunities? So then let's nominate everyone, but.. Bleachigo Feb 06, 07:35

LOL. Why can't you use your powers of logic to come up with a reasonable scenario? {nm} RogerMore Feb 06, 08:12

The scenario is only conclusion based on YOUR formula. *Checkmate and tag line for the movie included Bleachigo Feb 06, 08:43

It means "make more movies that provide more opportunities for minority actors". The best minority actors will be chosen to perform in those RogerMore Feb 06, 09:52

How many more movies? K.I.S.S.: "Just give people the freedom to choose for themselves." Bleachigo Feb 06, 10:20

As many as the market determines - Hollywood is a commercial industry that exists to make money, but some segments of the audience are RogerMore Feb 06, 12:01

"As many as the market determines" ...What category is that on BOM again? Bleachigo Feb 06, 12:45

"As many as the market determines" is exactly what it sounds like - as many as the studios can make for their audiences, while generating an RogerMore Feb 06, 13:14

Here is your correction "Is exactly what it sounds like it is - unmeasurable" Bleachigo Feb 06, 14:00

Please don't correct my arguments - you've fabricated enough about what they mean. RogerMore Feb 06, 14:52

Same core point you're avoiding: My own opinion (and yours) is impervious to allegations of "Fabrication" Bleachigo Feb 06, 16:11

I don't think you understand my opinion at all, and it's compounded by your repeated jibes that I'm angry. RogerMore Feb 06, 17:44

I am trying to understand your opinion (That is why I am still here) but every response just plays back to exclusion Bleachigo Feb 06, 18:05

My perspective is about inclusion, not exclusion. RogerMore Feb 07, 07:39

Your argument is full of good intentions, but clearly flawed by design. You have to stifle the majority for inclusion = exclusion Bleachigo Feb 07, 10:30

Continued Bleachigo Feb 07, 10:32

You should think about the difference between majority and majority rule. I'll try another way. RogerMore Feb 07, 12:21

Why do you use figures to illustrate your opinion, but can't give me a simple threshold number to measure success? Bleachigo Feb 07, 13:16

Because it's a hypothetical example used to illustrate how majority rule works. Why don't you address any of the issues raised by 90% of RogerMore Feb 07, 13:41

I appreciate your time. When you have a system that is not based on racial preference, handicapping or exclusion let's talk. Bleachigo Feb 07, 14:14

I've asked if you have spent any time thinking about this issue, and you're more upset I don't agree with you? Escape your echo chamber! BSmurf Feb 05, 15:10

Stop fighting a "straw-man"!! Nobody is there...EQUALITY FOR ALL {nm} Bleachigo Feb 05, 15:16

Just because you think everyone is equal and I do too doesn't mean other people do. And if the people that don't have the power to make JDolphin Feb 06, 00:09

I agree JD, that if someone that makes decisions doesn't think we are all equal they will make a bias decision.. Bleachigo Feb 06, 07:46

How are you going to force them? Who is good for an acting role is a matter of opinion. They don't have to use race as their reason even if JDolphin Feb 06, 15:09

No one should be forced to choose based on race. Choosing the right actor should be based on opinion not racial bias... Bleachigo Feb 06, 16:33

Sorry, I misunderstood you previous answer. So what would you do if you thought someone biased made biased decisions over and over again? {nm} JDolphin Feb 06, 18:26

No problem, simple misunderstanding. To answer your question. Embrace your constitutional right to voice your opinion Bleachigo Feb 06, 18:55

Bleachigo- And if talking doesn't get you anywhere, what would you do if these biases, keep you from getting work? {nm} JDolphin Feb 06, 20:08

But you DON'T believe in equality for all, bc the only way objective decisions result in this racial disparity is if nonwhites are inferior CG63 Feb 06, 19:05

"The only way"? Why does anyone not just "non whites" have to be considered inferior? Bleachigo Feb 06, 19:39

They shouldn't be, but they are (by some people). So how do you get from the way things are to the way they should be when the people with JDolphin Feb 06, 20:30

Talking is just usually the way most people (now a days) find a resolution to disagreements, but you could also try Bleachigo Feb 06, 21:01

pick another topic to troll with please {nm} adrenalin112 Feb 05, 14:59

1st thing I've liked about the movie {nm} JDolphin Feb 05, 14:01





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