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Heh...I grew up in New Orleans. And that cuts both ways...numbers being able to say anything.

Posted by: Catzan on Jul 22, 20:22 in response to medv4380's post What about States like Idaho with a relatively low murder...

I was mugged there by a group of kids with a sawed off shot gun and several hand guns. After that, I would sit on our balcony with a snub nose in my lap and watch the thugs go out on their looting trips. New Orleans has never been a great place to live with regards to safety. A gun is gonna kill whether it has one shot or 100. I just have never seen the need for everyone to have access to a gun that can shot a lotta ammunition. Of course, I don't see a need for revolution by arms either...that could always change should our government suddenly become despotic or evil. "Guns don't kill people...people do." has always been a funny argument. I always looked at like, well then don't give guns to people and no one will get killed by a gun...as opposed to that legitimizes giving guns to anyone. But, any of us can philosophize and debate about this all we want. Neither side will change the others' opinion.  If this guy did not have legal access to guns and wanted to get them anyway, yes, he probably either would have obtained them illegally or found another way to do damage. However, hard to argue that there is not a greater chance for him to have been stopped if it was illegal. There is at least a chance he will get caught because law enforcement is supposed to be on the lookout for illegal activity.  By what he did to prepare for this attack being legal, there was not one iota of a chance of him being caught. Even if the chance was incredibly slim, I think there should be a law to protect us from what he did. And again...if he commits a crime with an illegal weapon...there is another charge to add more time to his stay in jail.  But, everyone has a right to an opinion as has been supported by force of arms for many years.  

Ok, let's start a debate on banning assault rifles here. I think access should be limited.   elchan on Jul 22, 15:05

Wouldn't change anything.   medv4380 on Jul 22, 15:31

In smaller countries, it might...America's issue with enforcement is the amount of people, the amount of land and the amount of freedoms.   Catzan on Jul 22, 15:42

Didn't stop Anders from getting Fragile Rounds for his killing spree, or from using a pretty big bomb. {nm}   medv4380 on Jul 22, 16:01

Possibly a good point...but how many mass murders has Norway had since they put laws into effect? One? Two? Per capita comparison?   Catzan on Jul 22, 16:57

My opinions on Lobo's link to the audio, I promised I would keep it light on this forum board. {nm}   damenchipguy on Jul 22, 17:08

Increase the area that you're looking at and they become the same. North America vs Europe has nearly the same Murder Rate. {nm}   medv4380 on Jul 22, 17:30

So per capita we have the same murder rates...what about all the countries that have gun bans lumped together...how do they fare as a whole?   Catzan on Jul 22, 17:42

What about States like Idaho with a relatively low murder rate? If you exclude and pick a small enough sample you can make them say exactly   medv4380 on Jul 22, 18:49

Heh...I grew up in New Orleans. And that cuts both ways...numbers being able to say anything.    Catzan on Jul 22, 20:22

But, the problem with the illegal arms argument is that none of these mass shootings have been done using illegal firearms.   elchan on Jul 22, 16:04

Most Gang shootings use illegal weapons. Namely unregistered weapons or weapons with their ID filled off.   medv4380 on Jul 22, 16:16

Yes, but we're not talking about gangs killing each other, and sometimes collateral damage to citizens.   elchan on Jul 22, 16:26

How would your ban on Assault Rifles stop the Crazies? Charles Whitmen only needed a basic Rifles   medv4380 on Jul 22, 17:28

I don't think you can ban crazies, but a ban on assault rifles can limit the damage they do. {nm}   elchan on Jul 22, 17:59

How is an Assault Rifle more dangerous than a home made bomb? {nm}   medv4380 on Jul 22, 18:45

They are both used to kill, so no difference I can see, other than the assault rifle being more portable. {nm}   elchan on Jul 23, 07:09

Nice Quote from CNN inside about mass killers. -more-   arf on Jul 22, 18:52

So...Freedom of Speech isn't enough...the pen is NOT mightier than the sword. Compelling but sad argument...but that is humanity?   Catzan on Jul 22, 17:00

100 people (in US, estimate) died in car crashes yesterday. wheres the outrage over that? I demand a ban on cars. {nm}   islander on Jul 22, 15:39

Was it intentional? Better...was texting involved? heh...a whole different discussion could brew up in a sec.   Catzan on Jul 22, 15:44

ive checked stuff online while driving; its scary how much distance passes in just the time it takes to load my port   islander on Jul 22, 15:49

HAH! Better sell some stocks to speed that loading!    Catzan on Jul 22, 15:51

But the fact is that cars have multiple uses, including benignly as a means of transport. Assault rifles, have no benign function. {nm}   elchan on Jul 22, 16:05

Hunting, Match Target Competitions, Leasure Target Shooting. Just off the top of my head. {nm}   Scorpion on Jul 22, 16:09

Hunting with an assault rifle? Seriously? Target shooting usually done at shooting ranges, so no need to bring the gun home.   elchan on Jul 22, 16:12

.308 & 7.62 calibur AR's can hunt very well. The use of .223 is frowned upon......cause it's not deadly enough. {nm}   Scorpion on Jul 22, 16:16

It's not really a question of the calibre of the ammo. Most legal assault rifles have at least a semi-auto mode, and some have full auto.   elchan on Jul 22, 16:29

You -cannot- buy a new full auto gun in the US unless you are Law Enforcement, the Military or a Federal Fire Arms Dealer.   Scorpion on Jul 22, 16:55

But can those other weapons be easily converted to fire 100 rounds? That might be why "assault" is an important distinction.   Catzan on Jul 22, 17:02

yes they can   RazorHawk on Jul 22, 17:09

Are there any squirrels alive around your grandfather's house at all??? ;-)   Catzan on Jul 22, 17:22

not within 150 yards...   RazorHawk on Jul 22, 17:35

rats with fluffy tails. Good riddance!   Catzan on Jul 22, 17:44

There's nothing stopping any rifle that takes a detachable box magazine from having a 100 round magazine made   Scorpion on Jul 22, 17:12

Never got into the gun thing...and somehow my brain typed the question I already know the answer to despite that. Thanks for the answer. =)   Catzan on Jul 22, 17:24

The the 100 round magazine is not legal in most states, right?   elchan on Jul 22, 17:30

gun laws vary widely from state to state. I would make an educated guess they aren't as illegal as you would think.   Scorpion on Jul 22, 17:44

"For the first time in 45 years, homicide dropped out of the top 15 causes of death in the United States in 2010"   islander on Jul 22, 15:51

The fact that it is safer than other countries is what makes these few random violent acts seem that much more horrifying.   Catzan on Jul 22, 15:53

Safer is relative to the country you're using to compare. Did you know that Japan actually lies about its murder rate.   medv4380 on Jul 22, 16:05

You make my point. I was saying America seems safer and that is why these acts appall so much. So if Japan isn't as safe as it says...   Catzan on Jul 22, 16:53

I don't think it's safer in other countries necessarily. Everyone thinks that Canada is safe, but don't forget we have 10x less population.   elchan on Jul 22, 16:18

Per capita is another way to look at safety...   Catzan on Jul 22, 17:24

Homicides per 100k: USA 4.8, Can 1.62 , UK 1.23 {nm}   Rednax on Jul 22, 18:05

From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#section_1 {nm}   Rednax on Jul 22, 18:06

There's less gang shooting in Canada, but looking at crazies going off ...   elchan on Jul 23, 07:48

The U.S government banned the sale of new fully automatic guns in 1986.....crime was uneffected. Gatling gun's are still legal.   Scorpion on Jul 22, 16:02

There is no need for them ever. Nobody is part of a militia. Want to be in one? Join the National Guard.   Buy BONDS 19 coming 7/24/12 on Jul 22, 16:05

The gun culture relies on the history of our founding. Tougher to break that it would seem than a business.   Catzan on Jul 22, 16:55

Heller vs. US - "Militia Clause irrelevant", Every individual has the right to keep and bear arms, not just the National Guard. {nm}   arf on Jul 22, 19:07

maybe we should start banning everything...   RazorHawk on Jul 22, 16:40

If I'm ever in your neck of the woods or you mine, steak dinner is on me. {nm}   Tanker on Jul 22, 17:34

Banning assault rifles will not stop the sickos, but it will limit the damage they can do. {nm}   elchan on Jul 22, 18:05

anybody anywhere can do whatever damage that they want to do at anytime (if there is a will there is a way)   RazorHawk on Jul 22, 18:58

Sure, but the assertion is that the assault rifle is a tool of killing. Banning it would make it one level more difficult for the sicko   elchan on Jul 22, 19:31

And that assertion is wrong   davmoo on Jul 22, 21:05

lol... the same Bill Of Rights that allows you to have guns... also guarentees "freedom of assembly" {nm}   RazorHawk on Jul 22, 22:22

That's my point...if we're going to ignore gun ownership rights, then why can't we ignore some of the others too. {nm}   davmoo on Jul 22, 23:51

You just proved the assertion. "...it has never killed anyone. And it won't...until someone tries to take it away from me. " {nm}   elchan on Jul 23, 07:07

You should be able to get a permit that permits you to carry your gun with you on your property. But there are no snakes in the hood.    goodvibe61 on Jul 23, 00:26

America has in its past banned alcohol. That worked out about as well as the war on certain drugs. Banning firearms will be no different.   Tanker on Jul 22, 17:08

Banning alchol resulted in smugglers making faster cars to outrun police... which eventually became NASCAR {nm}   RazorHawk on Jul 22, 17:11

7 Killed and 14 wounded in Chicago this weekend. Chicago is "gun free". -more-   arf on Jul 22, 18:09

He also used explosives to kill and distract police, though he failed on the first pat. -link inside-   arf on Jul 22, 18:16





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