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Sure you are - that's why you said that I think the way I do because I am paid to do so.

Posted by: RogerMore on Nov 08, 08:18 in response to websch01ar's post I am not dismissing you bro. We are all bound to our...

What I'm trying to get across is that principles, whatever they are, become more complicated in the real world.

Applying a sound principle to its logical extreme can often make bad results. Or two seemingly good principles can collide to produce a bad outcome.

It's the boundaries of those principles that are interesting, not so much the principles themselves.  "I believe I should be able to say what I think" "So do I" Boring.  But the limits of this principle - "What are the things I can and can't say on a discussion board where we all have to get along?" Interesting

But the times when you've said "I believe in this principle, therefore this should be is the outcome" and I've said "here are some practical factors to consider" and now "by the way, this is something I've actually experienced, not just something I read in a book or on Wikipedia", your response has been "I'm fine with my principles thanks". End of discussion.

On Keynes, of course I find value in his principles.  But that's like saying there's value in Freud, or in Socrates. Influential thinkers who produced useful tools that everyone in the relevant field should understand, but thinking has also developed since then - in large part because those principles have been applied and tested in the real world.  For example, Irving Fisher's thinking was more influential in the US response to the financial crisis than Keynesianism was.

But sure, I support the general Keynesian principle that when the private sector produces an inefficient result, the government should step in to produce the correct outcome. (which is I think what you meant?)

But, what's an inefficient result? Is it really inefficient, or just an outcome someone doesn't like? What's the correct outcome?  Is it really correct, or just someone's ideology?  Is the inefficiency really so bad that it justifies intervention? How should the government intervene - heavily, or does it just need to tweak things? How can government avoid becoming part of the problem? What indirect impacts will government intervention have? etc

Asking these questions doesn't invalidate the principle, but they are questions that increase my understanding of how that principle should be applied in reality.  Amd even though I support the principle of "government should do something when appropriate", when something goes wrong I don't have a "the government should do something about that!" knee-jerk reaction.

Similarly, I'm not trying to invalidate your views with my comments. It's about exploring where we each think the boundaries lie. But if "government should stay out of the private sector" is absolute truth to you, then there's not much point in discussing.

Congrats to President Obama on winning his reelection effort. websch01ar Nov 07, 04:42

On the Secretary of Business stuff, economic development is different to what a Treasury Secretary should be responsible for. RogerMore Nov 07, 07:21

There is plenty of overlap. I guess I just want business to by and large stay out of the way of business. websch01ar Nov 07, 07:53

I assume you meant "I just want government to stay out of the way of business"? Because business staying out of the way of business is Paul2k Nov 07, 08:12

Of course, I misspoke. As for western Europe comparison, we will soon (2014) begin implementing websch01ar Nov 07, 11:08

I'll worry about America becoming Western Europe when there's a serious proposal to raise marginal tax rates on high incomes over 50% RogerMore Nov 07, 08:16

I am not a fan of the Import/Export Bank. I appreciate your comments, but we clearly disagree. {nm} websch01ar Nov 07, 11:04

Sure. Just so you're aware I've worked most of my career on the frontier between government and business, mostly on the gov't side. RogerMore Nov 07, 11:55

Makes sense right? Puts bacon on the table for you. {nm} websch01ar Nov 07, 15:56

Come on dude. I'm being open with you. Theres no need to be dismissive because we disagree {nm} RogerMore Nov 07, 17:57

I am not dismissing you bro. We are all bound to our experiences and whatever values we hold to. websch01ar Nov 08, 04:59

Sure you are - that's why you said that I think the way I do because I am paid to do so. RogerMore Nov 08, 08:18

I do not believe in straight-up zero government intervention websch01ar Nov 08, 10:42

Sure. I'm off on vacation starting tomorrow anyway. RogerMore Nov 08, 19:59

Wow a lot to chew on there. New thread? Email going forward? websch01ar Nov 09, 04:28

Like I said, vacation. We can talk in a week. {nm} RogerMore Nov 09, 07:20

Business should stay out of business, just like there's no intelligence in the CIA. {nm} elchan Nov 07, 10:45

meanie websch01ar Nov 07, 11:08





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