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Nobody defines who they are. They are defined by the acts they do, and with whom they do them

Posted by: elchan2012 on Jan 09, 10:18 in response to RogerMore's post You have this 100% backwards. The "defining" is...

As human beings they cannot be discrimated against.  But they should also not be conferred any special rights. Marriage, for instance, has certain advantages attached because governments and societies place a high value in it.  This is because we want to encourage a happy growing population.  This is not a human right, it's just something instituted by the government, and churches.

Homosexuals have the right to get married through whatever institution they create for themselves, but they should not expect society to confer to them any special privileges.

I agree homosexuals should not be excluded from activities, where sexual orientation is irrelevant.  In a business environment, for instance, it is irrelevant.  Sexual orientation should not even be discussed, so how can one get excluded?

Being in a hockey team has its difficulties, because of the communal locker rooms and showers.  I mean does a woman's hockey team want to allow a man in the team?  He would insist on beining in the same locker room, and shower in the same communal showers.  

Of course, this can be remedied by requiring private showers, and locker room. So instead of showing "support" by creating a PSA, maybe the league should spend the money to retrofit their locker rooms and showers.  This way women and gays can play in the same teams.  However, that may affect team building and bonding.  So in these kind of situations, sexual orientation IS relevant to the task and it is necessary to be discriminant about who you put on the team.

HP: NHL Becomes First North American Sports League To Have All Teams Support LGBT Athletes And Fans. RotoHockeyYTD2013 Jan 08, 12:54

Let's not get carried away. More like NHL gets all teams to make a video for You Can Play Antibody Jan 08, 13:00

Don't Worry - your MLB will be right behind in 20 - 40 years. {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2013 Jan 08, 13:10

Get back to us when an active ice hockey player comes out of the closet. {nm} Antibody Jan 08, 13:12

First Steps First - Official Formal League Support for LGBT (Major Step). {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2013 Jan 08, 13:20

Again, read the actual Press Release, and not the regurgitated headline from HP. Antibody Jan 08, 13:27

Every Team - All 30 Teams - League-Wide Support (Major Step). Good on Gary Bettman (Leadership). {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2013 Jan 08, 13:34

"Through You Can Play" {nm} Antibody Jan 08, 13:45

Once Again, it's a Race between FIFA Soccer & MLB to see which Major Sports League is Last to get on Board. {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2013 Jan 08, 15:19

FYI, I'm a bigger hockey fan than baseball fan. I don't have blind faith in one sport over another just because of its national origin. {nm} Antibody Jan 08, 15:36

Right on. Any particular Team you follow - or particular Players? {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2013 Jan 08, 16:27

i.e. NHL makes desperate ploy for publicity. For what possible reason wouldn't NHL support ANY fans? {nm} forlorne Jan 08, 13:42

It's a PR put out by You Can Play, not NHL. {nm} Antibody Jan 08, 13:46

Why does a sports team have to support gay rights? Why do gays need special rights? All humans fall have human rights. elchan2012 Jan 08, 18:47

They're not asking for special rights. They want their human rights to be recognized. {nm} RogerMore Jan 09, 05:57

As humans, they are entitled the same rights as we all have. They seem to need more than that. {nm} elchan2012 Jan 09, 06:48

No, they want to be included, respected and accepted as ordinary members of society, and that means an environment where they are not RogerMore Jan 09, 07:21

Well, other humans do not define themselves in terms of their sexual orientation. It's irrelevant for anyone else except the partner. elchan2012 Jan 09, 07:43

You have this 100% backwards. The "defining" is done by people who want to exclude gays, for the sole reason that they are gay. RogerMore Jan 09, 08:13

Nobody defines who they are. They are defined by the acts they do, and with whom they do them elchan2012 Jan 09, 10:18

I have to ask about this one... lobogotti Jan 09, 11:35

Have to ask about this one .... Women & Gays can play on the Same Teams? {nm} RotoHockeyYTD2014 Jan 09, 11:56

You do realize there are gay athletes in communal showers with straight athletes right now without any incident. Antibody Jan 09, 14:15

Firstly, voting is a duty, not a privilege and woman's rights were impinged upon, by not being allowed to vote. elchan2012 Jan 09, 16:33

well I'll say this, I use your website often and value your contributions here, we just have a difference of opinion lobogotti Jan 09, 17:32

We're just debating here, right? I'm just giving my opinion. elchan2012 Jan 09, 18:24

Homosexuality is NORMAL. They are not a fringe group and calling them that is hate {nm} Moviesnob Jan 09, 18:31

and gay couples have children. They aren't "granted custody". {nm} Moviesnob Jan 09, 18:33

Then I don't know what the definition of gay/homosexual is. Because my understanding is that they are attracted to same sex partners. elchan2012 Jan 09, 18:56

I'm glad you admit your ignorance. Maybe you should change that. {nm} Moviesnob Jan 09, 19:01

Gay couples can have surrogates, or invitro, or adopt; hetero couples can do the same, either if one partner has difficulty in the Paul2k Jan 09, 19:33

According to Wiki, 3.8% of Americans identified as gay. I would consider that fringe. Why is that hate? elchan2012 Jan 09, 18:53

no, fringe implies negative connotation. The word you are looking for is minority. They aren't on the edge of anything. {nm} Moviesnob Jan 09, 18:58

The word "fringe" on its own has no negative connotation. It simply means "edge". elchan2012 Jan 09, 20:19

you are wrong. From Webster's (note: "marginal, secondary, extremist"). Homosexuals are productive and valuable and not on the edge Moviesnob Jan 09, 20:25





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