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Facto: Re your debate with forlorne:
Can you please just clarify something for me? You are saying that this is the definition of art: authentic portrayals of a certain ideal, emotion, social issue, persona, character, etc? If this is correct, this explains why something in the sphere of movies like Black Swan, Ballast, etc would be classed as art. I can understand where you're coming from there, but I do have to say that the very word "art" is subjective in meaning, and what one would class as art another wouldn't. In a way, having "art departments" of universities would be manipulation as well, would it not? Let me explain: Art itself is subjective, as I mentioned earlier. By having an "art department" that essentially "decides" or "dictates" what is and isn't art, isn't that trying to force an "objective" (subjective based on their interpretation of the word art, but classed as objective because they are "intellectuals" so therefore would know more about it than "common folk", as you referred to earlier) reasoning of art on the rest of the human populace? I know what you were referring to in your earlier discussion, how "good art" pushes boundaries etc, but by your reasoning you are assuming that simply because they are professors in universities etc that they have a right to class something as "art" that others do not. The very essence of what you are saying, from what I can gather, is that only intellectuals are allowed to class something as "art", and only according to their own personal subjective opinions of what is and isn't good (remember, whether you care to admit it or not, art is and will forever be a subjective opinion of someone, whether it is the "commoner" down the street or the professor of arts in a major university). As you said, some art is commercial, others aren't, but that is because each person's definition of art isn't the same as another's, and one person will like some art and not others, because according to their subjective opinion (which is just as good as the subjective opinion of a professor at a major university) it isn't art. Regarding The Help, it is art to someone, just not you. Yes, it has been cleverly polished, it may not be believable, and it may not be authentic, but that does not mean that your subjective opinion about it is automatically better than anyone else's simply because you class yourself as an intellectual. I do agree, however, that all art has the power to manipulate to some degree, and maybe The Help is manipulating in a bad way (I don't know, because I haven't seen it yet). Basically to summarize, your opinion of art is simply that: a subjective opinion based on your own personal beliefs, ideals, learning, etc, and neither you nor anyone else (not even a professor at a university) has any right to force that definition of art onto anyone else, because art itself is subjective. It is meant that way so that each person is able to form their own personal opinion of it. Any attempt to definitely categorize and declare something as art restricts upon the creative freedom of another individual, which I believe is no better than the restrictive practices that were used in the USSR and now in China etc.
@giteshpandya FRI BO: #Help $3.63M, #Apollo18 $2.84M, #SharkNight $2.8M, Debt $2.61M, Colombiana $2M, Apes $1.85M. Sep 03, 09:01
THELP isn't that impressive. Its holds are good but in a different time of year, it wouldn't have a shot at number 1 Sep 03, 09:11
It couldn't compete with most films released during the heart of summer. {nm} Sep 03, 09:45
funny - it just did. and since when is a multiplier of over 4 - 4.5 (depending on how you calculate) not impressive? Sep 03, 09:54
Oh poor you. Can't handle people that don't agree with you. {nm} Sep 03, 09:57
And August is hardly the heart of summer. More like the end. {nm} Sep 03, 09:58
yeah - wah me. Sep 03, 10:08
Why can't you handle negativity? Have you watched the news lately? There's more of that than positivity, to be sure. {nm} Sep 03, 10:10
oh ok. Sep 03, 10:20
Oh poor you. You can't see that THELP has been impressive and thoroughly whupped your beloved horror movies. {nm} Sep 03, 10:01
Stick to chick flicks then. Leave the fun movies R-rated movies for those that can enjoy them. {nm} Sep 03, 10:03
Hooray for ad hominem attacks! I bow to you and your wisdom. {nm} Sep 03, 10:09
I have no problem with your opinion and feelings on the movie. Heck, if I were to watch it, I might feel the same way. Sep 03, 10:24
Believe it or not, movies are made by people intending to make a living i.e. a profit. By the very Sep 03, 10:24
If anything, fringe movies are more likely to make a profit because they're a lot cheaper than mainstream films. Sep 03, 10:29
Most of the films on this list of the 10 most profitable movies of all time are "fringe" Sep 03, 10:50
And this one Sep 03, 10:52
And their names are..............? {nm} Sep 03, 10:52
More than half your list is definitely fringe. Horror films are always fringe. They define fringe entertainment. {nm} Sep 03, 11:03
and as far as" the heart of summer", August 6th was exactly the middle of summer. THELP was released on the 10th. As Sep 03, 10:32
Sure. I am saying that movies are entertainment. You seem to be claiming there is some objective definition of great art. Sep 03, 11:23
"slick and cunning"=those that make movies that don't appeal to you. "cutting edge & creative"=movies that do Sep 03, 11:06
Why is it "appaling" that some people want to be emotionally moved by their entertainment? {nm} Sep 03, 11:07
Incidentally, more than half of 20= 11 or more. 11 or more of that list, even by your new definition, are not fringe. {nm} Sep 03, 11:17
Alctually you stated "fringe movies" were far more likely to make a profit than mainstream, so what Sep 03, 11:29
Facto {nm} Sep 03, 13:42
whoops..Facto: I do NOT distinguish between entertainment and art, unless you mean something like the Sep 03, 13:46
Facto: so you are saying professors and students of art determine what is art and what is entertainment? Sep 03, 16:07
No TV in your house???!?! {nm} Sep 03, 14:35
Harry: We have a TV, but it serves only as a monitor for DVDs or video games, no broadcast TV, cable, satellite etc. Sep 03, 15:59
Re: Facto Sep 03, 13:49
And there will always be fringe horror movies just like there will always be middlebrow crowdpleasers. {nm} Sep 03, 14:12
Fine, but I still don't see what makes The Help so "detrimental". {nm} Sep 03, 15:04
Facto: movies are NOT real life. None of them. Even if they were, they would only be of the real life of Sep 03, 18:06
Sure, or I mean, could be, but it would've never beaten Pirates, or Thor, or TF3, or any other huge blockbuster. {nm} Sep 03, 17:55
I would like someone to explain the rationale that totally ignores older intellegent adults from the multiplex for 3 months? Sep 03, 10:46
"Harry Warden" {nm} Sep 03, 10:51
This is truly absurd. {nm} Sep 03, 12:05
ditto. {nm} Sep 03, 12:11
What is absurd? {nm} Sep 03, 12:53
Calling The Help's performance "not that impressive." {nm} Sep 03, 17:13
What does whether it's #1 or not have to do with whether the movie is a success? Sep 03, 18:31
D'oh... *paragraph* !! ;-p {nm} Sep 03, 19:17
Facto: Re your debate with forlorne: Sep 04, 05:38
Don't worry about the typos etc. I'm not picky, and I could still understand you. {nm} Sep 04, 07:06
