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I've read the link (more inside)

Posted by: baronblacksheep on Aug 10, 02:03 in response to arf's post http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html -more...

The first link (to tbo.com) doesn't work as their server seems to be down, but read the one on guncite.

I understand the point being made in reference to the US (the following seems to sum up the various positions well: "By this time there seems little legitimate scholarly reason to doubt that defensive gun use is very common in the U.S., and that it probably is substantially more common than criminal gun use. This should not come as a surprise, given that there are far more gun-owning crime victims than there are gun-owning criminals and that victimization is spread out over many different victims, while offending is more concentrated among a relatively small number of offenders.").

Clearly in a society that has widespread gun ownership (45-90% of people according to Google) you will always have more gun owning victims than criminals (stats say 2-20% of the US population are criminals of the sort who get arrested and jailed). My argument is that while gun proliferation will undoubtedly boost incidents of DGUs, it will also mean that the 2% of the population who are criminals will have a near 100% ownership level of guns, therefore making DGUs increasingly necessary.

I would also argue that gun proliferation makes it much more likely that someone who ordinarily would not be a criminal has greater means to become one due to the easy access to guns. While this is an incredibly touchy example, my belief is that in a country such as the UK, the Aurora shooter would not have had the ability to procure the weapons to carry out his crime. What I mean by that, is that prior to dropping out of med school he was a normal person on the road to becoming a nurse or doctor. He was socially introverted, not in a gang and certainly not tough enough to get into one. But, he was able to acquire guns legally and easily, which gave him the means to commit this crime.

While I don't agree with owning guns (and wouldn't own one if I lived in the US, no matter how foolish that may sound), it is logical that in the US it is perhaps wise to carry one simply because so many other people have one.

As I said in my original post, I don't think it is possible to break the cycle of gun proliferation in the US at this stage - you're too far down the gyre to be able to pull free no matter what legislation was introduced.

One thing I'd like to put to you is this: let's imagine that tomorrow we discoverd an island the size of Japan in the middle of the Pacific. Though completely unbelievable, let's say for the sake of this hypothetical argument that they have progressed technologically, socially etc exactly in line with western democracies such as the US and Europe, even down to having the same government system and crime rates are roughly the same as Europe. The only difference is that they never invented guns and have never seen one before. Are you arguing that giving a gun to every adult in this society will make it safer because then they are able to defend themselves better from criminals?

For those people who were arguing in favour of gun control laws, take a look at this (hopefully it works): accountant_4_Jesus Aug 07, 00:16

You live in Australia right? Homicide rates by firearm have gone down since their 1996 gun law. {nm} Antibody Aug 07, 10:02

Nutjobs,lunatics and the determined dishonest will always find a way to get weapons {nm} blaze223 Aug 07, 10:12

Everyone's innocent until they commit a crime. That isn't even logical. Jane_Citizen Aug 07, 13:21

That quote is scary. People with strange personality traits can be prevented can be discriminated upon? {nm} elchan Aug 07, 14:19

No, the point is that they can't. So you don't know which person is necessarily going to be the one who (cont) Jane_Citizen Aug 07, 22:51

I'm in the process of getting my FOID Card wroberson Aug 08, 01:45

I believe we need to control what kind of weapons should be so easily accessible. However, I'm not for gun control in general. elchan Aug 07, 14:21

Ok, I'll try to respond to all of your comments: accountant_4_Jesus Aug 07, 16:11

Actually they have laws against some kinds of cars. They don't allow spikes on your wheel hub caps, and battering rams on your bumper. elchan Aug 07, 19:38

I prefer the freedom from being potentially threatened with a gun. Jane_Citizen Aug 07, 20:27

Chicago has very strict laws against handguns. They sound really safe from being potentially threatened with a gun. {nm} Tanker Aug 08, 15:13