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That is an uninformed opinion..

Posted by: Chimpmuck (a.k.a psisson) on Mar 21, 10:10 in response to Antibody's post No, thank the conservatives for taking funding away from...

Deinstitutionalization as a policy for state hospitals began in the period of the civil rights movement when many groups were being incorporated into mainstream society. Three forces drove the movement of people with severe mental illness from hospitals into the community: the belief that mental hospitals were cruel and inhumane; the hope that new antipsychotic medications offered a cure; and the desire to save money.


As patients were being discharged into the community, a series of legal decisions also had an impact on whether one could be readmitted or stay in a hospital setting. 


In Lake v. Cameron, a 1966 D.C. Court of Appeals case, the concept of “least restrictive setting” was introduced, requiring hospitals to discharge patients to an environment less restrictive than a hospital if at all possible.


In the 1975 case of O’Connor v. Donaldson, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that a person had to be a danger to him- or herself or to others for confinement to be constitutional.


The 1999 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Olmstead v. L.C. stated that mental illness was a disability and covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. All governmental agencies, not just the state hospitals, were be required thereafter to make “reasonable accommodations” to move people with mental illness into community-based treatment to end unnecessary institutionalization.


These court decisions have certainly limited the ability of state facilities to confine people in hospitals against their will and created conflict between laws that are intended to preserve liberty and prevent wrongful hospitalization, on the one hand, and the need to identify and treat people early in their diseases, on the other.


Both the liberal courts and progressive ideology is to blame for the mentally ill roaming the streets and becoming potential mass killers.

less than a week after the mosque slayings, New Zealand bans all semi-automatic assault weapons (which the US also used to before the NRA) professor zovek Mar 20, 19:42

There is no such thing as an "assault weapon." This language was invented to demonize guns {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 20, 21:25

good. it's working professor zovek Mar 21, 00:09

The language I saw banned military-style semiautomatic weapons? Is that a real thing? {nm} Wellespring Mar 21, 03:37

It will be defined in the NZ legislation - but basically, a semi automatic firearm or shotgun that can be used with a detachable cartridge RogerMore Mar 21, 05:48

How about "weapon made to kill multiple human beings on a battlefield". {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 08:04

All guns are designed to kill. What's your point? {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 09:27

So they should all be banned? No, some people have legitimate uses for some types of gun. So which ones should be banned? The ones made to RogerMore Mar 21, 09:39

Why should any gun be banned? "Legitimate use" is not required according to the 2nd amendment and the supreme court affirmation of gun right {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 09:43

Supreme Court has ruled that right is not unlimited. Also, Amendments can and have been changed in the past. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 09:46

I never understand why people blame guns and not perpetrators. My gun and the guns of millions of others have not gone out and killed anyone Chimpmuck Mar 21, 09:51

Because other nations in the world that ban assault weapons do not have nutcases that massacre its citizens regularly. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 09:56

Probably because they remove the nutcases from society rather than let them roam the streets like we do {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 09:58

Wrong. Again, the only difference in the equation is "assault rweapons". {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 10:04

Actually, absence of assault weapon... Hard to kill 50 people in 10 minutes with a knife... {nm} Lukasck Mar 21, 14:18

In the case of murder by knife, would you blame the knife and call for knife control? {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 14:23

Because like you said, they're designed to kill. It's good public policy to restrict ownership. And NZ doesn't have the 2nd Amendment. {nm} RogerMore Mar 21, 09:51

I'm happy they are designed to kill... Chimpmuck Mar 21, 09:56

No, thank the conservatives for taking funding away from social services that would have housed the mentally ill. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 09:58

That is an uninformed opinion.. Chimpmuck Mar 21, 10:10

The mass murderers in the US were not "mentally ill roaming the streets" but regular people in good homes including high school sstudents. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 10:40

Anyone who commits mass murder is mentally ill. Your argument is invalid. {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 10:44

The point is they are regular people like you with no signs of mental illness, until the shooting starts. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 10:47

Roaming the streets and allowed to buy guns, including the most lethal guns and a lot of them. And look closer at the people you are talking RogerMore Mar 21, 10:17

In terms of constitutional rights, that is the equivalent of banning free speech for everyone because some people might use "hate speech" {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 10:21

I can't believe you switched from "if more people were institutionalised, this wouldn't be a problem" to "this is a breach of constitutional RogerMore Mar 21, 10:31

I didn't switch. Restricting the rights of all citizens to own guns for protection because of the deinstitutionalized mentally ill is wrong Chimpmuck Mar 21, 10:42

Who said anything about banning all guns? Just asking for semi-automatic, assault weapons made by the military for the battlefield. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 10:44

The AR-15 everyone hates is not made by the military. More... Chimpmuck Mar 21, 11:03

Saying “the similarities are cosmetic” isn’t telling the whole story. It’s a semi-automatic rifle developed for the military and adapted for RogerMore Mar 21, 11:20

You don’t seem very concerned about the constitutional rights of the people who would be institutionalize under your proposal. RogerMore Mar 21, 10:58

With some people there is no way to know whether they are going to be a mass killer. You can resrtict the rights of everyone based... Chimpmuck Mar 21, 11:17

*cant restrict {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 11:17

So think of ways that don’t affect people’s rights or impact them less. Don’t just say “Do nothing, it’s better than a complete ban” RogerMore Mar 21, 11:39

I agree with all of that (except the home interview) and more, as long as it is focused on the individual. {nm} Chimpmuck Mar 21, 11:43

In these discussions, I've found that everyone agrees with it (generally) in theory, but prefer the status quo in practice. {nm} RogerMore Mar 21, 12:04

What kind of "legitimate use" can you find to a gun designed to shoot 500 rounds/minute??? Lukasck Mar 21, 12:04

That's just a hyperbolic argument. If you are referring to the vilified AR-15 rifle... Chimpmuck Mar 21, 12:34

Like I said, no need to bring NRA usual lines to justify... Lukasck Mar 21, 13:55

Our constitution was designed so that citizens can have weapons to.... chipshot Mar 21, 11:33

The constitution also referred to slaves as three-fifths of a whole person. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 12:04

and the weapons in the civil war helped put that in balance that, huh. {nm} chipshot Mar 21, 12:41

Or nearly a million Americans would not have died needlessly if guns were not around. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 12:53

Many nations ended slavery without going through a civil war. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 13:03

and actually ended it {nm} professor zovek Mar 21, 13:07

apples and oranges. If many nations had the ability to uprise against their corrupt governments chipshot Mar 21, 12:46

Huh? Many nations have risen up against their corrupt governments and replaced their leaders violently throughout history. {nm} Antibody Mar 21, 12:50

Fairy Tale. {nm} DTravel Mar 21, 12:41





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